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Interview

Q: Some artists say you are daring and that has led to innovations in the art of batik painting. 

A: Yes, that is because I don't paint for the market. I paint for myself. Painting for me is a straightforward expression of my views. After I had mastered the art of batik I was not satisfied. I began to experiment. I first used the characteristic of crackling lines to do a rubber tree. I then  used waxed  white lines to do woodcut like forms. My third innovation was the introduction of  texture. I then went on to combine tapestry design with the stained glass effect.

Q. Who taught you batik art?

A: When I started,  there was no one to teach me. Those who knew kept the secret to themselves. So I learnt the hard way. I knew it had to do with wax and dyes. I knew that the national minorities of China used the art to express themselves. But they were far away. So I went to various school art societies in KL and even meetings of the American Women's Association to learn about dyes. In Kelantan where they used synthetic dyes for batik, I learnt most. I also had to study hard to prepare for talks on TV on batik painting, a programme involving half an hour each week. I wrote to companies producing dyestuff, to companies as far away as Japan, Germany, Switzerland 

I spent six months in Paris to learn how tapestry was made. Tapestry is close to batik. I learnt that dyestuff had 20,000 and more colours. It was a revelation. I was staggered by  the pink and blue stained glass of Notre Dame; it was like staring at a batik painting. And I shall never forget the amazing colours of the ceiling to floor stained glass windows of the Courts of Justice. . 
 

Q: How did you get interested in art

A: I started young. I drew before I could write. When Koh Sia, who is famous for his orchids, was  teaching in school I followed him everywhere. He was a famous artist and earned a fabulous income of $1000 a month in the fifties. He even had a new Hillman car when few could afford to buy a car. Nearly every day, at five or six in the afternoon, I would haunt his house and watch him paint. I would go to the exhibitions, the Art Society's yearly exhibitions, for instance. Loh Cheng Chuan and my father encouraged me so that I could buy the best paper and materials I needed.  Loh Cheng Chuan lived in Kimberley Street and would give money to artists who were short of money. He would also help sell their works. My father was his supporter. 
 

Q: What about formal training?

A: In 1957 I  went to Taiwan to study art for 3 years, at the  normal school training stage only. I made friends with Chang Ye Hsiung, a great artist in charcoal. His wife worked washing dishes at two restaurants to support him. I learnt a lot from him. Every summer vacation he taught me to draw black and white portrait sketches,  painting basics like the  head, then the body and learning about the human body. School does not give you enough, you have to learn also from outside the course offered.  Training as an art teacher, which is what I was doing in Taiwan, is not training as artist. After I met Chang Ye Hsiung I became an artist. I was glad when the Paris Artistes Retirement Fund enabled him to go to Paris.  He then migrated to Japan   He became famous late in life, a picture the size of a postcard sells for as much as RM6000. I have one of his paintings. Yes, I would say that Koh Sia and he were my teachers

Q: Have you exhibited?

A: Yes I have. You do not become the fully fledged artist until you have done your first exhibition. In 1967 I exhibited in Japan

Q: Who are the artists that you admire most?

A: Of the early ones I think highly of is Chung Pak Muk who exhibited as early as 1941. He taught art in Chung High Ling School Art Society . I also used to watch Yong Mun Sen paint when I was a kid, when he sold his works for $6 apiece. Chong Pak Muk's colours are bright, as water colours should be. His painting is not cluttered with extraneous objects, and the picture is clean and clear. It is not fair that this great pioneer is largely ignored. 

Q: Why do you do water colours and batik but never oils?

A: I can't stand turpentine so I don't do oils. Water  colour is fast,  batik is also easy. Water colours are my first love. I was chairman of Penang Water Colours Society. Batik came later. 

Q: One book says you are a sculptor but I see only a figure here

A: I do sculpture for hotels. The piece you see here is of Kuan Im, the Goddess of Mercy.  I carved it from drift wood.  I was fishing, a hobby I am very fond of and found the fishermen hauling this piece out of the sea. I paid them RM50 for it. I used a Bali carving knife and worked on it and what eventually emerged was Kuan Im.  Dato Tay Hooi Keat came and saw and liked it. However, I do not go for figurative paintings as other artists do showing people shopping, sitting and so on. I prefer landscapes 
 

Q: You have several water colours of Bali scenes. Why does Bali so fascinate you?

A: One reason is that Bali is internationally known. I started to increase the range of my subject matter with Bali. It was also a way of letting the world know of this country. I am was impressed with the music and the dancing and festivals. Balinese art attracted artists from people from all over the world
 

Q: What about young artists today?

A: When you look back at the what I call first generation artists, life was hard for them. Paintings were not easy to sell. Artists got by as signboard painters or teachers. Young artists of the second generation could hardly survive under these conditions. When Dato Tay Hooi Keat came back from abroad he took over from Englishman,  Peter Harris. Harris was himself a good artist, the first artists in art education in Malaya  (I have his pencil sketch of nude figure 1980). Dato Tay Hooi Keat encouraged the 3rd generation. Art was taught in schools, art competitions were held. That I think is part of our job, to teach the young. As soon as I learnt the art of batik painting I started to teach those willing to learn. I think it is the artist's job not to be selfish and to teach as much as he can.  And look at the results. In  1960 I was lucky if I got $80 for a painting. $120 was considered good, $240 very good and with $750 we hit the ceiling. Today the  young sell at RM2- 3000. And there are buyers, thanks to art education. Now a lot of ordinary  people are buying through artists or art gallery ordinary people The rich seldom  buy.

Q; You have an collection of  Irian and New Guinea carvings. What is their  significance?

A: I am attracted by the simple forms of expression. The art comes from the artist's inner feelings. They did not go to art school and yet they teach us and remind us of the elementary ways of expression. Primitive art expresses the religion and customs of its people, this goes for all peoples and all civilisations. Stone and wood are used as they are easy to get . Yet today we find some artists painting orchids as if they were photographing them, life size.
 

Q. It has been said that painting is magic. What is your view?

A:   I agree with that view.  Take that horse head figure carving I have from Irian Jaya. Someone came to the door, looked at it and said, "I am afraid. You are witch doctor. I shall not  enter your house", and she fled. You can't explain that.
 

Q. I see you have a modernistic painting by Dato Tay Hooi Keat. What is its significance?

A: Dato Hooi Keat was more daring after his studies in England. The waterfall  which hangs on the wall is one of the best examples of his new phase.